General discussion about Bf Bot Manager v3 software for Betfair, Betdaq and Matchbook betting exchanges
By dn6789
Also today the theme seems to be leaning towards just how frustrated people get with trying to build strategy - or finding ways to win.

If you read any of my forum threads you will know that I came within 2 or 3 days of giving up - after subscribing for almost 2 years it just was not working and I was not using it.

So I said to myself lets give this one more go and adopt a much more stringent way of approaching strategy -- I need data bases - I need a proper version of excel - I need scrapers

I emailed betfair bot section for advice - I read the comments and stories - I looked on youtube for videos - I read the manual and made notes.

Then I set about putting it all together in a way that I understand - not the manual way - not the youtube way - but something that I can understand ... I just think too many times people arrive here looking for answers and they are very few and far away - and just cause something works for someone else maybe it does not work in my situation.

So yeah I have been there - had that mindset and moved on.

If your someone that wants to stay in this for the longer term - and your struggling - drop us an email.... at worst I can look at what you have done to date and give you some advice.
By dn6789
Something that is common - is we have a lot of people based in the UK and Europe who browse this forum - either as members or people who are just looking in.

In our group we have several UK Members and I am sure they would say - that I do everything possible to cater to their hours of being online - deliver the strategy so they can run it - and keep up to date on any support issues that come up.

Many people ask me do I have UK Horse Racing Strategy -- yes I do -- but the strategies I have selected for our group to run are designed to be lower risk - more stable and bet on select set ups -- because for many people they have tried everything and it simply does not work for one reason or another.

So these currently run on Australian and New Zealand racing ... now that is not to say in a few months when we have some profits in the door and we take a poll if everyone wants it - then I will design something specific lower risk for UK Horse Betting .. I am all about working towards a common goal.

If your lurking around looking for bits and pieces on this or that - I have provided plenty of strategy advice - but if your looking for more than that -- do not sit around losing money

email I am sure you have plenty of questions well I also have plenty of answers.
By dn6789
Also if you want a guide to where we are at

After 6 days of people joining in the Base Strategy is +34.8 Points heading towards a monthly goal of 200 Points.

Every day is not a winning day - but I know stats + I know how to build strategy that works.

Also be aware that it does take considerable work to get every single persons result the same as mine -- everyone has a different PC / set up - Bot Settings ... these all need to be made as close to mine as possible.
By dn6789
To me this is an absolutely crucial point:

A tipping service wants to bet most races to keep people happy who want to have a bet -- they see their results and they can play catch up - making more tips - increasing bet sizes or any number of things - if they start to lose.

This is perfectly fine - but its bit more of entertainment value that making money.

What we do is different to this -- I analyze the market - figure out at what price making a bet makes sense - and if it makes sense we bet -- if it does not then we do not. Is the favorite a strong fav or weak fav - should we take it on or not -- this is what we are doing -- picking our spots using statistical analysis and taking a risk.

We cannot possibly win every time - but if we can bet these situations over and over again - our Bank grows.

To me this is a huge difference in thinking and approach and it also takes all emotion out of it .. All I care about is balancing the risk we take vs achieving certain monthly targets.

Like I have said many times -- my approach is one approach - and I know where my comfort zone is - so check in with us - work on your own ideas or sports -- use some of my ideas or not ... whatever works for you.

Good Luck
By dn6789
As I have said before my setup has not really changed in 2 years - I changed one setting couple days ago but that is it.

But many people have different settings in their bots - here are a couple we saw yesterday.

There was a race that was re-scheduled 4 times and 3 runners were scratched -- my setting was not to delete races that close -- so when Betfair opened and closed the market several times - my strategies were still working making the calculations - but we had a couple of members that had the setting delete market as soon as market closes .. so they missed the winning bet.... this is a BF Bot setting and a Betfair issue.

Something else was we autoload our races in AUST + NZ daily - but Betfair does not release these races that long before they start -- so if you have autoload every 2 hours - and it misses when Betfair loads them you can miss the first few races... again a Betfair issue and something that needs to be reloaded faster for NZ races to ensure the markets load properly each day.

You do not see any discussion on settings like this - or other settings that I have changed myself and that I try to make sure we are all uniform in our approach. So if your strategies are not working quite right - these small issues can have an effect as well - causing you to miss bets - not have markets loaded etc ... and take it from me these are not the only ones.

100% if your struggling - and this is something you really want to do -- then now is the time to email - and at least let me take a look at what your doing and give you some suggestions -- our group will be up to 8 or 9 next week and once I hit 12 - that is all I can support on a daily basis - and there will be no more offer to help or offer suggestions.

Yeah I post these little things each day to just show you some of the battles you face without even realizing it.

Best of luck today.
By dn6789
Yesterday was an interesting day in that it was my first real losing day in 3 weeks.

It came down to 2 races where we had a nice setup - the race played out how we would like but we got beaten on the line by another horse .. and ultimately that is racing

that lowers my monthly profit to +25 units

I think everyone gets not everyday is a winning day - but we have to ride the stats and keep a positive mindset and move onto the next race day.

So I am not perfect - but you know thats why I say - calculate your bankroll and stakes that work for you - and stay with in that -- so you can play the slightly longer game.
By dn6789
so much has happened in the last week or so and I have learned so much from various people but there are a few facts I wanted to point out.

1. I was sending private strategy out each day to people - and I worked hard to make sure that everyone had the same settings as me ... but this did not work because the bot would miss bets and place bets that were not on my machine -- so this is not an issue when your winning - but the moment you are losing and miss some bets - bam it really matters.

my own opinion on it is that there is something in BF Bot that causes it because no way 8 people using the exact same thing run into this problem.

2. recovery -- when I started these strategies I was using flat bets and not even worrying about recovery and they were winning everyday .. but then I went through 4-5 days where my strikerate went from 53% to 28-30% and when I added recovery it blew out profits quick.

so to solve this I used the pause after number of losing bets and further filters to narrow down the selection.

what was a winning strategy hit a significant hurdle and it was very frustrating for me.

3. Various Opinions -- for me I run alot of strategy and I do not worry about 1 individual result much because it is always part of a vast army .. but when you have other people who are just running this - then I need to be more responsive to what they want and not just what suits me

4. results - so I pored through the data in a way that I have not done before to find the absolute best setups I could - updated all the strategy and now just run it all on my machine and not on anyone elses

and yesterday we went 53% +$386

So yeah there were issues I had no idea were issues // recovery can be a real problem - so you need to stay on top of it and use settings that are more moderate than you think you need --> also have a cut off point to stop today and start again tomorrow

also realize that everyone makes mistakes - but you gotta learn from those and move on.

For me who pounds out bets by the hundreds a day - I learned alot and our little group can see there is way to make money -- but we just need to see more results and high SR's ... you cannot win without them.

good luck in your own journeys best for now.
By dn6789
Also something else I have picked up on

When I build my own strategies - I group them all together - so they have joint take profits and stop losses

this way they reset very often and avoid getting caught in their own drawdowns

but when you run strategies on their own - then you also have to deal with the drawdowns individually.

So this morning I looked through one GH strategy we run - and saw some things that made be adjust how it bets.

Overall the strategy is extremely sound - but what not sound was the staking. Over 300 bets it was hitting 37% left open to bet -- but it also included some lower chance bets that - caused the recovery function to use itself too often when it was not needed.

This morning based on 150 100 and 50 results - I fine tuned it - so its now a 50% SR strategy with 25% POT with about 150 bets a month.

Summary - betting it not just about strategy - it is also about how best to bet it via staking.

Multiple strategies linked together can help you overcome drawdowns and limitations of ideas - but when it comes to one strategy then staking is extra important.

Again I have said this a few times - I am not perfect myself I make mistakes - but I learn from them and adjust.

If your numbers are not looking right - best to do something about it if possible.
By dn6789
Funnily enough this project has actually led to some real advancements in how I use strategy data now .. and that is because of the number of challenges this threw up.

What did not work for us at all - was using private strategy with everyone running on their own PC's -- despite troubleshooting settings etc - it still resulted in random bets and different bets - as still everyone had a different set up on how they use their computer and what sort they were using. VPS also varied as some were not quite powerful enough to process the data quickly enough.

Also what is interesting is the actual core strategy has not changed from Day 1 since I started posting about it here - but what has changed is how we use the data to bet. Each portion is broken down individually and filtered - to focus on the best quality bets for each section .. so we do not win everyday because some days there are less races that fit the criteria than others - but that is betting for you.

+ we introduced a place component into the strategy because some days we were getting 5//6/7 seconds and it got bit frustrating -- so this reduces profits - but also smooths out any losing days.

Probably lastly I introduced slightly different versions - where some portions are very highly filtered and others less so - so they can perform the function that they were intended and just over the last 3 weeks - the results have really started to come together.

In terms of other feedback : I also have Bet Angel now - and launched a version on that as well - but I can tell you BF Bot for how I use it is better -- BA is great for traders but not so great for strategy builders - and to be honest you make a suggestion to help and they do not want to listen. So as far as software goes you just need to be critical in terms of what you want it to do and how you are using it.

For our little group yesterday we hit +501 in profits which is our highest day - and with all the refinements made - I think we are all happy as to what coming months will bring.

I can tell you that if you want to win - you need to go search all my threads -- write down notes and try some things and try to figure out what makes sense- what does not -- and what can make you money. Remember this did not come to me in a day either - you will have to experiment till that one day the light goes on and it starts to make sense.

I can absolutely tell you that you can win using BF Bot or Bet Angel -- but only if you have sound Strategy and determination to push yourself to find that success -- using simple strategy or buying $10 pre made strategy simply is not going to work -- it is much more complicated than that.

Good Luck
By Rocknrolla
Nice thread.

BF BM is new to me. Coming from Bet Angel it's true that hard work pays off. Still use BA but mainly for manual trading.

Well done pal.
By dn6789
I really do not update threads here much anymore - and its the same on the Bet Angel forums -- basically there is no real assistance to build your own profitable strategies -- they tell you try this or that but your on your own -- or people go to ebay and buy crap strategies.

Really I have tried to point people in the right direction from my own experience - but obviously it took me many years to figure it out - so you cannot expect yourself to solve it in a few days.

The one thing that irritates me - is when people ask me for my settings- not even taking the time to try it themselves and then just complaining over nothing -- like you know to make 250,000 a year - someone just does not go OK here you go - take mine. I spend hours a day working on strategy - either in updating/programming - trying new things - helping people or monitoring my own positions.

My assistance is either via group betting strategy - or if you want a new group - or if you want coaching -- but I am simply not going to just go here you go - go and win money.

Any reasonable person should get the meaning behind that... I am happy to help - I have to get something for my time and I am constantly moving forward - so yeah you can hit me up on -- or you can completely disregard all my threads and ideas and work on your own .. it is no problem to me.